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Osserman build
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Soulglider



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: sd Reply with quote

you guys are talking plywood for great sakes. what the fvck. just make one and if its too big make another.....you'll be out 8 bucks and you can sell or give it to a friend! all this over thinking, when you know this aint gunna be your last board ever is just a waste of time....enjoy the ridea and make a million of them.
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for getting that info Bob! Pretty much fits where I have been heading (in my head). I sort of mixed and matched from what peeps here have said, Stan, Larry, my mat, etc Decided to put wide point either at tail or maybe forward of that 6-12 inches.

I think the HPD are same as old Paipo Nui at 40X30. I made one of those out of ply and it seemed pretty much too wide but that was totally flat bottom, no roll, no rocker.

I'm thinking around 41X20 (approx 12" up from tail) and around 18 at tail block. Nose about 14" 6" back and just blend in a nice round curve round nose.

I do like the looks of Harry Akisada's boards in the Larry Goddard interview.

Soulglider, my problem is I live WAAAAAAAAAY inland and only get in the water a couple times a year these days so whatever I make is pretty much it for a long time. No luxury of skunk works trial and refine. The "over thinking" is actually what I live for these days. That is the majority of my surfing! Sad but true
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warping in the concaves would decrease width a bit from the starting template...
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mrmike



Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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Location: coronado, ca

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

take a piece of string and lay it in the mold then measure it and you will know how much exter you will need Question
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mrmike



Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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Location: coronado, ca

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also ply does not bend well because the layers are in different direction what you need to do is what kid does. use 1/6" sheet and glue 6 to 8 pieces together then clamp the whole mess into your mold. coat your mold with wax so the glue does not stick. when dry it will retain the shape of the mold Cool
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
use 1/6" sheet and glue 6 to 8 pieces together then clamp the whole mess into your mold
Do you mean w/ grain going alternate directions so you end up making your own plywood? Makes sense, I was a bit concerned that plywood already glued up would just split or crack apart when bent.

Stan's mold set up seems almost overkill w/ shaped front though. Just several well placed wedges I would think would do about the same end result.
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked back at Stan's interview and he uses plywood!
Quote:
I use 1/8" maple, birch or mahogany plywood, either 3 or four layers for the blanks.
So maybe it would work after all.
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mrmike



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea lay the grain criscross at 45 degs it will be realy strong. 1/16" will bend alot better than 1/8" (tip: put your glue or epoxi on with a roler) Cool
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Poobah
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 696
Location: California, San Diego

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geoffreylevens wrote:
Thanks for getting that info Bob! Pretty much fits where I have been heading (in my head). I sort of mixed and matched from what peeps here have said, Stan, Larry, my mat, etc Decided to put wide point either at tail or maybe forward of that 6-12 inches.


I think wide point at the tail would not be as "nimble." Plus you also risk digging an outside corner on an extreme wave. I wouldn't be too surprised to hear that Stan already did that (widepoint at tail) experiment, and didn't like it.

Moving the wide point forward will curve the template and rocker the rail line. This is perhaps easier to visualize if you look at the impact of template shape on a single concave in this old thread:

http://rodndtube.com/paipo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220&highlight=trickboardz
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty cool! I sort of knew that from surfboards but somehow it seems it had fallen out of my head. I do like the overall aesthetic of Stan's template as well. That may even have been at least partyl why, in a way, my HPD template (40X30) in 1/2 inch ply felt so much like trying to fly a barn door in a hurricane. Quite fast but out of control rocket fast. You really only need to be able to go fast enough...

I liked those shots of Stan knee riding it. Shows plenty of traction on the face.
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, you got a look at some of Stan's boards in person? He says in text
Quote:
the board is completely flat through the middle of the board until you get to about 10 inches from center line, where the board turns up about 3/4 inches and then down to zero at the rail.
That would mean 20 inch wide flat center width. But eyeballing the photos it looks more like equal thirds which would mean a total of 10 inches flat 1/2 as much, and the concaves would be spread over a much wider area. The photo of Harry's board looks like concaves more spread out, equal thirds maybe also. My concave lore is a bit thin but I think that maybe the softer, wider concaves would be faster/less drag but not hold in as well? The narrower, steeper ones would be slower but give more hold. I'm thinking maybe he misspoke and meant "10 inches across center line."?

What did you see? Concaves concentrated out near the rails with very wide flats, or wider, more gradual concaves?
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bgreen



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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Location: Qld. Oz

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Geoffrey,

Sorry but I didn't see the boards in person. The interview was done via e-mail. From the photos it's hard to tell. I have more photos of one of Harry's boards - they look like there is more concave throughout.

I can ask Stan. The following excerpts from a recent e-mail from Stan highlighted that his design is influenced by how he rides - e.g kneeling, hence the wide point being further forward than on Paipo Nui & the perpetual dance between speed and control.

I can pass on your question:

Bob


". The problem with the Paipo Nui (and my early designs as well) was that I kept hanging up my fins and banging the tops of my feet on the back of the board as I'd pull up to my kneeling position, so I tried cutting out the aft end and it seemed to work well. But that discussion leads to one of the great things about a Paipo; there's no skeg, and the aft half of the rail is the most critical part of the design. It's a very efficient shape, hydro-dynamically speaking. Your planning surface and your skeg are the 20% of the board that sticks into the wave when you're planning along, low drag, minimal wetted surface and max bite on the edge that keeps you from slipping down the face of the wave

If the widest part were further forward, it would lose the "bite" as
it starts to move into the scoop shape of the nose. If it were farther back
(like Harry's boards) it would hold the wall well, but take away some of my maneuvering capability on my knees (where Harry has his lower body to help him change direction, because he usually rides prone). I probably sacrifice a little top end speed to Harry's shape, but can maneuver quicker on my knees.

So the bottom line is that my turned down rail at the widest point, and the shape of the aft corners of the board (I have found) give me the best speed, best hold on a steep wall, and highest maneuverability while knee riding."
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geoffreylevens



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That all fits in with what I thought I knew. Harry's boards have more planning area in tail and would be stiffer turning due to the straight back last bit rather than pulled in like Stan's. I tried a Paipo Nui template a few years back and it seemed very cumbersome turning to me. Since this will be prone only though, might make the back end fairly straight, just depends on the mood at the moment I actually cut it out I guess.

I going quite a bit narrower (21") and maybe pull the tail a bit, more like Stan's but either way, a wider nose. Just looked at pic again and Harry's looks fuller in the nose, closer to what is appearing in my mind... 40X21 + the thickness to a box containing it required by the concave shape, keeps it just under the "62 linear inches" baggage requirement for most air lines. I usually don't need much more than a carry on. Flippers and mat in that small bag w/ some underwear and tee shirts, tooth brush and razor, and a 1st aid kit and good to go.

Just noticed the other day I could take my old Turbo bodyboard and turn in backwards and come close to the line I want, just round out the front end some for looks, so really it will look more like a mini-Simmons w/ definite, hips (Hmmm, women... paipos... Need I say no more. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.)
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Soulglider



Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:26 am    Post subject: csa Reply with quote

wider in the nose is a mistake. if you want to engage in turns your wide point should be at least behind your shoulders (when lying prone) or else you won't be able to see where you're going without a face full of water. I used to put the wide point forward (thought it faster) but had the water in my face all the time, on drop-ins and during turns and if there was any chop on the face at all. as i moved that wide spot back (read about it in a bodyboard magazine) I actually went faster and water in the face problem was cured. making your board narrower is dead on! the wider you go, the more the board will tend to slide out, or want to anyway. granted, what you are making isnt a lot like what i ride but the wide point back and narrower are things that constants in any design. unless you like the water in the face thing Wink

sounds like you're getting closer to your goal....good luck!
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't clear. I meant wide point still back, hopefully right under my hips, but a fuller nose. Still narrower at 12" from front than say at 26" or 28" from front, but just a bit more tapered than parallel. If you have a bodyboard lying around, look at it but think of the nose being the tail and vice versa... or look at these and just imagine the nose (tail in the picture) being changed to a blunt round. Maybe closer to the MS1 than the other models, though that could change on a whim.

http://www.ebodyboarding.com/bodyboards/Mike-Stewart-Bodyboards

Wadayathinko'that?
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