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OIL SPILL
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willy.wipeout



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: OIL SPILL Reply with quote

Is the oil spill having an effect on surfing in the States ? do surfers think enough is being done , sounds like BP were skimping on safety have they a backlash coming there way ?
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mrmike



Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boycott BP ARCO, ride your bike more Crying or Very sad
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Nels
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 340
Location: Ventura County, California

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole thing is worse than you can imagine on a quick glance, and not just for the currently affected area. The problem isn't really responsibility, it's the fact that the entire industry that drills for offshore oil anywhere on earth doesn't have a clue as to how to stop this type of problem. They are currently trying all kinds of theories to see what might work...literally throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks. They have equipment that the U.S. Government doesn't have so the private corporation has technology not available to the government and hence control of the response.

This is springtime in the Gulf of Mexico...with hurricane season starting in June. Imagine if it were the North Atlantic or Arctic in the dead of winter. The emperor has no clothes and is buggering the babies of the earth...
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Poobah
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 696
Location: California, San Diego

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many miles of passage are in the average unmapped cave?

We may never know. Here's a couple of ugly thoughts....oil hiding inside rock jetties, and oil getting buried on beaches, because it's the time of year when beaches are building up.
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Uncle Grumpy



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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Location: San Clemente

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please take the time to view these photos of the worst man made disaster ever. Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html
To add insult to injury they are using poisonous chemical dispersants.... Evil or Very Mad
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/business/energy-environment/13greenwire-less-toxic-dispersants-lose-out-in-bp-oil-spil-81183.html
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mrmike



Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are so screwed just to get more oil we have only our self to blame Crying or Very sad
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geoffreylevens



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrmike wrote:
boycott BP ARCO, ride your bike more Crying or Very sad


I would love to do this but they are a huge, multi tentacled, octopus of a company w/ business everywhere in everything! I have searched and can not find a list of their subsidiaries and holdings, all of whom I would include in that!!! Evil or Very Mad Sad
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rodndtube
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 690
Location: USA, MD, Baltimore

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Conscious of a Liberal
Paul Krugman
February 25, 2009
What should government do? A Jindal meditation

What is the appropriate role of government?

Traditionally, the division between conservatives and liberals has been over the role and size of the welfare state: liberals think that the government should play a large role in sanding off the market economy’s rough edges, conservatives believe that time and chance happen to us all, and that’s that.

But both sides, I thought, agreed that the government should provide public goods — goods that are nonrival (they benefit everyone) and nonexcludable (there’s no way to restrict the benefits to people who pay.) The classic examples are things like lighthouses and national defense, but there are many others. For example, knowing when a volcano is likely to erupt can save many lives; but there’s no private incentive to spend money on monitoring, since even people who didn’t contribute to maintaining the monitoring system can still benefit from the warning. So that’s the sort of activity that should be undertaken by government.

So what did Bobby Jindal choose to ridicule in this response to Obama last night? Volcano monitoring, of course.

And leaving aside the chutzpah of casting the failure of his own party’s governance as proof that government can’t work, does he really think that the response to natural disasters like Katrina is best undertaken by uncoordinated private action? [emphasis added] Hey, why bother having an army? Let’s just rely on self-defense by armed citizens.

The intellectual incoherence is stunning. Basically, the political philosophy of the GOP right now seems to consist of snickering at stuff that they think sounds funny. The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead.
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Uncle Grumpy



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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Location: San Clemente

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we can all do.....

Ride a bike, carpool, walk, use public transportation........
Buy locally grown and made products.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
Vote for candidates who have the stones to hold big business accountable when they F*CK UP.

BTW Check out this low rech solution
http://wimp.com/solutionoil
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rodndtube
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 690
Location: USA, MD, Baltimore

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gushing spill is sick, but it couldn't happen in a better place. Maybe this will be a wake-up call for the unfettered Eastern Seaboard exploration and drilling plans. Time for real regulations, real regulatory review and real enforcement. As somebody elsewhere mentioned, "Perhaps Jindal can start singing drill baby drill... in the hope that they drill that relief well faster."

Over and out. This is really a "paipo forum" and not a "political forum."
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Uncle Grumpy



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too late Rod, you started the ball rollin'.
Beavis and Butthead are not nearly as dangerous as DICK CHENEY.
He is the one person who we can actually blame.
He is behind the deregulation and he is behind Halliburton.



ONCE AGAIN: Deregulation to Blame for Another Tragedy

The evidence is in: Halliburton, Dick Cheney, secret energy task force meetings and massive Republican deregulation has once again led to tragedy. The April 20, 2010 Gulf oil spill is yet another story of careless, reckless deregulation and corruption under the Bush administration which has led to loss of life, destruction of wildlife and the environment, loss of income, and more. The full impact of the oil spill is still unknown, but the environmental and economic fallout from the massive spill is mounting quickly.
Gulf Oil Spill Tragedy
Evidence is mounting up that the oil spill in the Gulf is the result of a tragic sequence of equipment failures – but ultimately, all of them should have and could have been caught, had the rig been regulated properly. It turns out that tens of thousands of offshore rigs are barely regulated, a result of Dick Cheney’s private energy meetings and interference with the Department of Minerals Management Services, which regulates the off shore drilling. The MMS is also responsible for collecting the billions in royalties from the oil companies and is the same agency that was investigated and found to be doing cocaine and having sex with oil executives. Their judgment regarding the necessity of regulations was clearly not impartial.

NPR reports:

‘Wednesday’s hearings by congressional and administration panels in Washington and in Louisiana laid out a checklist of unseen breakdowns on largely unregulated aspects of well safety that appear to have contributed to the April 20 blowout: a leaky cement job, a loose hydraulic fitting, a dead battery.

The trail of problems highlights the reality that, even as the U.S. does more deep water offshore drilling in a quest for domestic oil, some key safety components are left almost entirely to the discretion of the companies doing the work.”

In the hours leading up to the spill, Halliburton was pumping cement into the well, which was supposed to block any oil or natural gas from surging out through the drill piping. They then capped with the (now infamous Halliburton) cement plugs, which are designed to stop gas or oil surge inside the pipe. The last plug was still missing just before 10 p.m. on the 20th when the oil began its now fateful surge through the pipes.

NPR reports that according to MMS spokesman David Smith, there are NO federal standards for the makeup of the cement filler. The government has been working to publish new guidelines later this year, but they are not mandates.

It’s important to note that in other industries, such as the housing industry, there are strict regulations and inspections at every step of the process. It is appalling that off shore regulations are not even equal to the housing industry, where cement footings have to be inspected before framing can proceed. While this may seem shocking, one needs only to ask themselves if the small business building industry had friends like Cheney or indeed, if Cheney was a stock holder of your small business home builder to understand why the standards are different.

Remember this the next time Republicans talk about how deregulation is good for the little guy, the mom and pop business owner. That is a fallacy, used to sell a corporatist agenda to the Main Streeters. Deregulation lines the pockets of the wealthy. Only the super wealthy can afford to buy off officials and buy off responsibility once the pseudo investigations begin. Your small business owner would be crushed under the weight of the lawsuits filed against him or her if he or she failed to regulate him or herself and caused so much destruction. Reasonable regulations actually HELP businesses, provided they are implemented and overseen. The only folks who benefit from no regulation are those who can afford to get the government to bail them out when they fail due to deregulation.

So, again, the next time a modern day Conservative justifies this sort of tragedy by saying you can’t regulate a free market or stop all “accidents”, remind them that this is NOT a free market. The government is bailing out all of the sectors that the Republicans deregulated. That is not a free market, it is literally socializing the downside of business. In a free market, those companies would be left to fail. As for the argument that you can’t stop all “accidents”, this was not an accident. This was preventable, at many stages along the way, before it became a tragedy. An accident is something you have no control over and can not prepare for. This was not an accident.

Here’s an example from Reuters of how Republicans are spinning this:

“Representative Joe Barton, the top Republican on the subcommittee’s full Energy and Commerce Committee, urged lawmakers not to restrict offshore drilling but still blasted the companies involved in the accident.

“We’ve had an accident. It is not an act of God,” Barton said. “It is something that could have been and should have been contained. The facts that we’ve uncovered … show that there was in all probability shoddy maintenance.”"

So, while Barton admits this could have been prevented with maintenance but it was not, he still doesn’t think offshore drilling needs to be stopped until regulations are in place? Interesting how he changed the goal post from their usual argument that accidents will happen. Now, it’s accidents will happen but don’t stop drilling. It’s amazing that they can make these arguments with a straight face. They are still trying to sell us that the oil companies will and should police themselves. Just how long do we have to keep on giving this failed notion the benefit of the doubt?

And yet, as NPR reported: “… industry officials acknowledged a fistful of regulatory and operational gaps: There is no government standard for design or installation of blowout preventives. The federal government doesn’t routinely inspect them before they are installed. Their emergency systems usually go untested once they are set on the seafloor at the mouth of the well. The federal government doesn’t require a backup.

In one telling exchange Wednesday at a hearing of the Coast Guard and MMS in Kenner, La., Coast Guard Capt. Hung Nguyen asked a regional supervisor of the federal regulatory agency a question about blowout preventives: “It’s my understanding that it’s designed to industry standard and it’s manufactured by the industry, installed by the industry, with no government witnessing or oversight of the construction or installation. Is that correct?”

“That is correct,” replied Michael Saucier, the MMS field supervisor for the Gulf.”

Regulation and oversight were clearly MIA in this story. Dick Cheney’s secret energy meetings, the MMS suddenly deciding under Bush that they would not continue with the recommendations to update the regulations of the oil companies as began under Clinton (it should be noted that the regulations have not been updated since 1996 – this is how deeply the oil companies have infiltrated our government), the government allowing the MMS to both collect royalties and police the off shore drilling (which is akin to the rating agencies on Wall Street which take money from the companies they “rate”) – all of this is both predictable and profoundly shocking at the same time.

The question at this point is what will the Obama administration do about this, if anything? In other words, just how complicit were the Democrats in helping Dick carry out his Destroy America Plan? I have to ask myself why it always comes down to this: the moment when we all turn to the Democrats and scold them for allowing the Republicans to be the greedy, lawless monsters they have been for the last ten years. Perhaps this is like turning to the abused woman to ask her why she didn’t protect her children from the abusive man. Perhaps it’s our frustration with the lack of accountability in Washington that causes us to settle on the Dems, waiting for them to DO something to rein the cowboys in. Maybe it isn’t something they can do, maybe it isn’t something they want to do.

Maybe we’re stuck voting on social issues and the rest of it is a one big corporatacracy. The rage, powerlessness and helplessness we all felt during Katrina never went away. The Gulf Spill is just being added to the list. We wanted blood, but we couldn’t get rid of Bush or punish Cheney or Rove. And it looks like we are going to have to swallow another major injustice against humanity and the environment, all because the oilmen have more money than we do. Meanwhile, Cheney is filthy rich, Bush is all done playing cowboy now and can just hang with the elites, and Rove is happy on Fox News spewing his deceptions. They’re all free.

When you’re seething with rage, remind yourself that THIS is the America some people are dying to take us back to. What would be left, after another four years of Republican rule? What industry is still standing? What life still manages to eek by? It’s absolutely reprehensible what Republicans did in the name of free market capitalism. They’ve bastardized the meaning of their own ideology to such an extent that it can only be received with scorn until they man up and take responsibility for the consequences of their choices.
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mrmike



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well said uncle G Cool
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mrmike



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just think of how fast you could go on an oil covered wave Shocked
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rodndtube
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those days it is so glassy and still that we call it "oily glassy" the waves look so slick and dark that even the 6 footers sneak up on you before busting over.
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geoffreylevens



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not just Cheney or those at the top... It is not just the Republicans either, Obama is still gung-ho (or is that "oil-ho'") for off-shore more drilling. There is really only one party at this point and it really is a massive, corrupt corporatacracy. The entire deep structure of our economy and society currently supports and promotes this and our education and media deeply program "the masses" to keep it all rolling...

www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/25/interior-department-ig-re_n_588755.html
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