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Osserman build
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This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    rodndtube.com's (OLD) MyPaipoBoards Forums. Reading but no posting on the OLD forums. Forum Index -> Paipo Board Design & Building
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost forgot to mention, waxed paper between bottom of board and frame and top of board and plug since there could be glue oozing through bolt holes. Also, waxed the part of the bolts that will be in the board for same reason.

And, I love hot glue!!!! Set up the dry run clamping, got it just right and then ran beads of hot glue around edges of all wedges and dowel props etc. They stayed put like champs and it is pretty easy to get off after w/ razor and a wee bit of sand paper at the end. I read or heard once that Greenough used to use it on occasion for quickie ding repair so as to be able to hit the water again quickly.
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bgreen



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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Location: Qld. Oz

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey,

Are you taking any photos of the build?

Bob
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, check page 3 of this thread! Lowish resolution so they wouldn't take so much screen space but give the idea...
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRACK!!! Plastic Resin Glue (Weldwood) MUST stay above 70 degrees for 14 hour or it takes longer to cure and comes out weaker. Power went off in middle of night so got down to 68 in house. Called DAP tech and they assured me that bond was strong enough and temp drop small enough that residual strength would be more than enough. Just heard a loud "CRACK" a few hours after removing from mold, after extra 24 hours in and where high stress ie over concaves, the layers have popped apart.

I think one big issue may be that since mine is full 8 inches narrower than Stan's narrowest, the curves are a lot tighter hence more pressure on the glue.

May get one more sheet of wood ($10) and try one w/ all grain going same way. Now that I have done it and system is set up, not huge amount of work...
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few more before that awful sound. As you can see from the last, some glue did leak through so the wax paper and waxing the bolts was a good call!







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kid



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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Location: Bells Beach

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Doc, that looks awesome. I'm gonna try something similar myself. I've done a couple of bellyboards where I did something like that. I put nose rocker through the nose and then a single concave through the tail. I used two layers of 3.5mm ply and pretty much clamped and glued it the same way you did. I like the bottom contour you've done on yours. I watched the video of the guys at the wall, and it kind of looks like they ride those boards with the tips at the tail turned up. I might be seeing it wrong, does anyone on here know?

Here's a pic of the board I made.

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"It's not a beer-belly, it's a displacement hull"

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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody ever use this stuff
www.liquidnails.com/products/product.jsp?productId=36
The Weldwood stuff I used I am out of anyway and I don't like that it must remain above 70 degrees for long time after application. We have too many power outages here! Titbond might work but I am dubious about for big flat area like this as it they say right on bottle not for load bearing and it definitely is that in the curves! The liquid nails stuff is MUCH less $ than epoxy, two tubes maybe only one to do the job and they are only $4-5 per tube...

3 sheets wood will definitely hold curves better. I am thinking to reduce concave to 1/2 inch from 3/4 as well as running grain all the long way. More flexible wood and less tight of a curve oughta get it...
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kid, how did the single concave ride?
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kid



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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Location: Bells Beach

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Doc, that board was just a little slightly tweaked english-style bellyboard, and the concave was more about seeing if it could be done. Having said that, its super fast and fun, and because I gave it a slight parabolic rail, it can hold a very high line in the face of the wave! My plan now is to make one in a more HPD-ish shape, and I might try something similar to your board in the back end. I've been using polyurethane glue, and so far I've never had it come apart, even gluing two sheets of 4.5mm ply into quite an exaggerated curve. They key with this stuff is to make sure everything is clamped well, and not to use too much glue, because this stuff will swell and push the wood apart.
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www.deluxepaipo.com
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the problem I had was because the weldwood stuff is so temperature sensitive! Done with that forever. Tight bond, or Roo glue or something is the call...
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kid



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
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Location: Bells Beach

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The polyurethane also seems to have no problem with flex. I've made some super flexy boards that can flex (in a four ft board) the nose and tail up and down more than 6 inches with no de-lam problems at all. It also seems to work in any temperature range.
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www.deluxepaipo.com
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much better! I think that Weldwood stuff used to be used to make water skis when they were wood laminates. Not much for flex maybe but something like 2800 lb psi bond strength

I need to source 1/2 inch prop for concave. Had a long drive for the 3/4 inch but I do think it will be much easier to make the bends needed w/ bit less and since a) board much narrower than Stan's and b) it is for prone only, that will be plenty deep!
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geoffreylevens



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: Glad I went to 1/2 inch concaves! It still made a few creaky cracky complaining noises but nothing like w/ 3/4 inch and I think all grain running linear to board length helped a lot as well. The rail line will come out much cleaner. Definitely Titebond 3 is the one to use. Easy pleasy, at least so far. Just finished getting in the mold.

Of course one of my only two clamps, one for each side, that are suitable for really cranking it down to bend the concaves, suddenly would not grab and hold! ARRRRRGHHGHGHH!!! Fortunately, changing to a different piece of pipe made it work again. Worked fine before on that piece but WTF, there it is, improvise, adapt, pray... Guests coming from CO so I am just going to leave it in the mold for a week until I have the time. Then clean up the template last bit and sand and finish.

The final step is to get over my torn rotator cuff so I am fit to swim etc.
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bgreen



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
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Location: Qld. Oz

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJ,

I have quite a few photos of one of Harry Akisada/s boards and the tips look like they would face down. E-mail me if you want a photo.

Geoffrey,

I think it was MrMike who said you can't have enough clamps. I've had problems with both my rotator cuffs. Riding prone and kicking doesn't cause me any problems. I do limited arm paddling on a paipo. I find the lower bouyancy boards don't paddle too well. I can paddle the Goddard based design, but it is more bouyant.

Looking forward to the finished board.


Bob
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global ernie



Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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Location: northern nsw

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:26 am    Post subject: complex curve moulding Reply with quote

i was picking the brains of my knowledgable mate about moulding veneers
with the idea of building a narrower HPD style board. his reservation was that you cannot mould a veneer succesfully around/over a complex curve i.e the nose area of the HPD, when the veneer is forced to conform to that type of curve the wood is stretched(and wood does not stretch) and therefore likely to fail at some future time. so while the rear ends of some of those moulded paipos look great (the double concaves etc)i have had some reservations about how the foil looks from the front. my experience has taught me that if it looks and feels good than it goes well and if it barks it can bite just when your not expecting! he said there are ways around the problem which he said were fairly easy but sounded way too time consuming and out of my skill range. think i will keep on carving paulownia sticks for now.
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