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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: Fins from SURFFOILS |
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Brett sent me these aluminium fins to fiddle around, so thanks a lot!!!! I'm going to shape myself a basic paipo, oil it and start experimenting. Can't wait to try them.
Must work good on the biiiiiiiiiig summer paipo's that i want to finish
_________________ Increasing succes by lowering expectations
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Hi Eef, heres a few pics of the quad that Im tesing toe- in on. Same fins as yours. The front set are toe-in and the rear set are toe-out. I tried a single set in various toe-out degrees and its an unusual feeling. Needs more testing tomorrow !
Heres a few pics of Bgreens board Im fooling around with, 2 densities of foam on a ply base, wrapped in 2 layers of carbon fibre topped with an exposed ply deck and 2oz glass. Maybe FCS, we're not sure what or where yet but its got the bottom cf on it today and the deck ply maybe later this week. I hope you have fun with your fins.
And a pic of the handboard with camera,
peanut paipo with double concaves
and a remodelled green kids bboard in progress.
Regards, Brett. |
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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: |
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wow! Busy man!!
lovely pictures (i LOVE pictures, say more than loads of words) and the handboard with the camera is just great. MORE pictures please.
About the fins: don't the different toe-ins work against each other?
Haven't done anything with the fins you sent me yet (sorry). Still busy doing the house
greetings,
Eef _________________ Increasing succes by lowering expectations
http://www.monsterboards.org
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: surffoils projects |
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Brett and I have exchanged a lot of e-mails. The board he is working on involves a lot more work than I anticipated. Really looking forward to testing it out.
Fins - I 'm happy to ride it finless. The question of whether the board needs fins came up. I have never ridden a paipo with fin - any comments anyone on fin set-ups on paipo?
Bob |
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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bob,
ik have a few boards with fins: one has a huge singelfin (too much hold on fast steep waves, but great on slow crumblers) and the other is a twin (hardly any toe-in). It makes the boards cling to the wave more (less sideslip) but you lose the loose feeling you get when riding finless.
_________________ Increasing succes by lowering expectations
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http://www.hugtheworld.net |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I'll test the quad set tomorrow and supply pics. Brett |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Eef, guys are real VISUAL creatures,according to the internet. I dig the pics too.
The question of toe in/out is up for debate , even the guys at Sways arent sure, I think we all suffer from following what the last guy did and not questioning what if things were different, so I'll be testing the board in the above pic and I'll post the results tomorrow ( waves permitting)
Ive got another styrofoam board that floats really high on the water that Im working on,
it looks like a pizza slice with the blunt end at the front but its not finished yet.
Brett. |
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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Eef, heres a bit of my theory and a few pics to explain my pizza board design soon to be revealed !
Boards dont need pointy noses, they are rarely in the water and just make a board look fast, so I see squared off noses as functional and a basic essential.
Moving back along a board I find that the front rails do grab or bog and it always happens as I launch over a crest or pull into a mean barrel and then I grab a rail and its all over in a shameful instant. So I was thinking how to reduce the incidence of rail-grab...
Maybe use heaps of rocker? Use really high rails? Pull a rounded planshape in so the rails arent there to grab at all, but then it becomes a pointy nosed board again !
The rails grab because they face 'forward',
The water either deflects away,under or over the rail.
The front (purple)half of the board has rails that face forward and therefore can catch/grab/bog. The trailing rails that face backwards cant grab, or Ive never grabbed a 'back rail' , has anyone ?
Anyhoo, I reckon if the planshape is changed to reduce the amount of 'forward rail' it would reduce the incidence of grabbing.
Modern bodyboards do this quite nicely, several of the commercial boards I own have a wide point about 15 inches down from the nose and 4.5 inches out from the front corner. Imagine bringing the WP up and in so it almost sits on the front corner of the board, kinda like this....
The pics are basic but the theory is good I think , any thoughts guys??
Regards, Brett.
Honestly, I havent been drinking !! |
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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Hi Brett!
i need to think that over, i'm not sure i get it yet (but hey it's still early).
Sounds well thought out though!
The rails on my boards are really thin, i guess that helps to avoid bogging in a completely different way _________________ Increasing succes by lowering expectations
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eef
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: Location: Alkmaar, Holland
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: |
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ah i guess i didn't understand it right: you mean rail-grab when turning righ? i thought you meant rail-DRAG.... _________________ Increasing succes by lowering expectations
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Eef, yeah you know when you dont keep the leading edge high enough and it grabs and brings you to a dead stop ! Thin rails slice through the water but they also have less sympathy if things go bad.
Just my opinion but Im willing to discuss any theories I post.
I agree that thin rails do help and I currently ride a piece of 5 ply but it still grabs if I dont keep the front up. My board is in the pics above.
Brett.
The waves were tiny today and Im a sore old man from surfing yesterday for hours so I didnt test the new quad arrangement, maybe tomorrow ! |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Hello Eef,
I think your comments have convinced me to remain finless.
Brett,
Most of my boards have a fair amount of nose lift. The alaia probably has the least at about 13cm (distance from nose tip to floor). It also has the most area in the nose.
I found one of my nofins had a tendency to did nose dive a bit under certain circumstances, whereas the other board with more weight in the tail virtually never nose dives. I believe on the very thin flexy paipo, nose lift is achieved by pulling up on the nose.
I'm not sure what the happens when you grab the rail. Too much grab grab/lift could make the nose dig. As an experimenter, you could do a reverse Soulglider and incrementally remove the nose off a board and see what happens. Location of the wide point could be a factor. Rails - not so sure, how these function on a prone board.
Bob |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bob, thanks for the info, my boards have zero nose rocker, so I do a lot more nose diving than the rest of you guys but at the same time I experiment with design to minimise the drawbacks inherent with no rocker. Ive found that you can replace rocker with planshape on a very flat board by pulling the nose planshape in, it keeps the front rail line away from harm to a certain degree.
The boards have a bit of flex too but I prefer to ride in a forward position.
On another topic, when I see a tubing section coming up I stall the board a little but I also scoop my outside arm into the wave to slow down, its a great technique for slowing down but Im getting addicted to it because paipos are prone to outrunning waves and Ive got some good tubes with the arm-scoop technique. (I keep the inside hand on the nose of the board for balance.)
Anyone else got any wave riding tips ?
Brett. |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Brett,
I think one of the major tips I would pass on (that was passed onto me by others from this forum) is the use of the rear corners of a paipo as something like a skeg and the use of hip pressure to turn.
John Galera also suggested the application of body surfing technique to paipo riding.
I think if you ride further forward, your approach would be quite different to mine.
I will probably get to Sydney for a conference in late October (it has the added attraction of being near the beach). For me, Sydney is also the gateway to the far south coast, one of my favourite places.
Bob |
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