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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: concaves and paipo |
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hello,
I have been doing a bit of research into paipo designs. As far as I can see the bottom of paipo boards tend to be flat with or without noselift, or flattish with some sight rounding from bottom to rail at the tail, as in the HPD's.
Anyone ridden a paipo with a concave in the bottom, seen one or have any thoughts on this?
thanks
Bob |
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mrmike
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: Location: coronado, ca
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have made 3 boards with concave bottoms, out of foam and kevelar this one is the most radical of them. they are fast once you get them up to speed you need a big wave with a steep face but I like the big flat bottom like the HPD'S works good in all types of surf big and small steep or mushy I have made about 15 of the flat type most people like this because you only need one board. ME I have too many as it is |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: Re: concaves and paipo |
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Mike,
Thanks. The photo suggests a fairly serious concave. Have you tried more modest concaves and still found them slow off the mark, or were all three similar to the one in the posted photo.
The photo of the wooden board you also posted was a fine looking board. Is this the preferred length for your boards?
Bob |
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plypo
Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Posts: Location: Cornwall
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Bob
I have been trying to put a concave in my past two boards with limited success. It has been a compromise between rocker and concave because the boards are hollow and I am working with a plane that I want to be convex and concave simultaneously.
cheers
Andy |
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mrmike
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: Location: coronado, ca
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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BOB I have made other with less concave at only 1/4" drop in the center across the back 1/3 of the board they work better on smaller waves get up to speed faster.
I like my boards on the short and thin side 34" to 40" a lot less to get going. To me in this sport less is more I have one of the HPD boards it to big for me I don't ride 20ft wave most of the waves in san diego are 3ft to 6ft.
I have been makeing paipo since 1962 and have tried almost everything but I still have lots to learn.
here is another pic of a board I made this summer MIKE |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: paipos and concaves |
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Thanks Plypo & Mike,
This is the fascinating & perplexing aspect of paipo design. Plypo's board is square in the tail, width further forward with a nose like a dagger while Mike's board is rounded at the nose with the widest point right near the tail. Unlike short boards, which until recently shared a basic similarity in outline and variation in th rocker, paipo seem to have basic similarlities in rocker (though there is the flat versus nose lift options) but incredible variety in planshape.
This is a gross generalisation but makes having an understanding of what works (bearing in mind the different waves surfed and different preferences) a challenge.
Bob |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: paipo & concaves (#2) |
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No sooner had I typed my reply than I remembered the one significant rocker variation in paipo - John Galera's boards have 'channel' bottoms.
Bob |
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plypo
Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Posts: Location: Cornwall
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Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi Bob
Just to confuse you further - I have drawn up a new template based on "Jack" (pictured above - and below). However, I'm bringing the tail in by 1.5" each side, doing some more work on a concave bottom. I've been shaping some fins to stick on. I've also been given a balsa log which I've got to get cut into strips as the board will still be hollow.
The beauty or essence of this site (and Larry's) is the variety of shapes, designs and materials that are on show. I hope the day never comes when someone finds the quintessential wave riding vehicle - what would be the point?
Anyway will keep you posted
Andy
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: RE: Paipo and concaves |
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Plypo,
Thanks. Have been doing a fair bit of research (in addition to Rod's paipo site, I have been looking at the Swaylocks and Flexspoon) sites. I am a bit sqaure eyed after all this.
I don't think there will ever be the perfect board for everyone, but it is useful to see if there are some basic principles of what may work best (or what combinations may work). A basic question how do the principles of design for short/long boards apply to paipo?
Bob |
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rodndtube Dolphin Glider
Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 690 Location: USA, MD, Baltimore
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: RE: Paipo and concaves |
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bgreen wrote: | Plypo,
Thanks. Have been doing a fair bit of research (in addition to Rod's paipo site, I have been looking at the Swaylocks and Flexspoon) sites. I am a bit sqaure eyed after all this.
I don't think there will ever be the perfect board for everyone, but it is useful to see if there are some basic principles of what may work best (or what combinations may work). A basic question how do the principles of design for short/long boards apply to paipo?
Bob |
Many of the basic principles are similar, however, in practice it becomes a matter of how you ride your board, and the fact that we paipo riders use less surface than a longboarder. Consider checking out the principles that apply for a kneeboard but remember that we tend to rider forward on the board and a kneeboarder more to the rear of the board. KSUSA is a great site: http://www.ksusa.org/ _________________ rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i |
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Poobah Dolphin Glider
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 696 Location: California, San Diego
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Different from a short surfboard, because you can't pump the paipo for speed. I think it's illegal in Georgia to even try it.
Nose kick?....I think you can probably saw 6 to 8 inches off the nose of an old kneeboard, and still have enough rocker for a fun bellyboard. Of course it depends on where you ride. |
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mrmike
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: Location: coronado, ca
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you. short is better turns faster, easy to get out in big surf, less to get taken away from you in the crunch zone. I think 40" is max unless you are really a big big person, also less drag. floting is not a factor. remember less is more when you are on your belly MIKE |
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bgreen
Joined: 20 Feb 2004 Posts: Location: Qld. Oz
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: RE: paipos and concave |
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Rod,
I came across the KSUSA site after Eef wrote about a Youtube video with paipo in it. I also found the Flexspoon site useful and started to think about the relevance of Greenough's spoon design to paipo - his later variation (edge board) is something different again. My latest paipo from John Galera had the rear section of foam between the channels removed and replaced with just resin over fibreglass.
Anyone paipo a Greenough spoon?
Poobah,
How did the cork board end up riding?
Mike,
Thanks. I have a HPD but have more fun on a longer - 57" paipo (I have two - but these are not the classic wafer thin, wide tailed paipo but channel bottomed, parallel rails, foam over fibreglass). The wood board I rode was also 5' but only 17" wide, so it could be shorter and wider I reckon.
Bob |
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Poobah Dolphin Glider
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 696 Location: California, San Diego
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Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: RE: paipos and concave |
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bgreen wrote: |
Poobah,
How did the cork board end up riding?
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It's a fun board. So far it's my only cork deck board, but I've got lots of more cork and ideas. Just need more time is all. In hindsight there is one regret I have about the peanut template. The indents should be closer to the tail so my inboard elbow doesn't hang off the edge of the board. Or so I think. |
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